video; un: white pawn

[chosenbylight]

[Anduin stands, holding his pendant in his hand. His is a face that likely only a handful of those in the city will recognize -- and he is rather counting on that fact.

He smiles, looking somewhat tired and worn but aren't we all these days?]

Good evening, my friends. I apologize for bringing such trivial questions to you, however I fear that being one of the lucky few to newly arrive in the city, I do not share your history of knowledge.

[He is trying not to speechify. Unlike some people, Wrathion. Is it working? He will try harder.]

Of late there has been much discussion of justice, especially with regards to Bonaccorso and his niece and nephew. But what of the rest of the nobility? I have heard, for instance, there is a noblewoman who is rumored to have supplied weapons to the brotherhood as payment for Taravast's survival? Should such a person be held responsible for the consequences of her actions? Or, as with Macaluso, do we turn a blind eye to such acts themselves when taken for the greater good?

[Is he fishing for opinions on donna Rigarda? You bet he is. Is his innocent newbie act working for you? Look at these Big Blue Eyes...]

Comments

@taken for granite

[rumorate]

Are we speaking hypothetically or literally?

[Just out of curiosity because there's what she thinks about things and there's what's politically viable.]

[chosenbylight]

[Unfortunately he isn't about to out the fact that he has been ordered to murder her just yet. That's the whole reason he's trying to fish for information in the first place.

Being a pacifist is hard...]

Well, that is what I would like to know. I have not heard of any plans in action...?

[rumorate]

For the noblewoman? No, not that I'm aware of. I think all of our attention is focused on the Doxe and the Attaryl right now.

@whitewolf

[northerndragon]

[Jon is young-looking under his well-kept beard, but his expression is as weary as Anduin’s.]

It doesn’t sound like a trivial question.

Which way are you leaning?

[chosenbylight]

[Wow, Jon, way to call a guy out.

Anduin gives him his best innocent look, which is to say it is a little strained around the edges. He has never been very comfortable with lying.]

I understand that there are those out there who will not be able to forgive such acts.

[The Merchant, for one.]

In the grand scheme of things, Rigarda's acts cost lives. They have also -- thus far, anyway -- paid for Taravast's survival.

[Anduin may look young, but his blue eyes are weary with the knowledge of the weight of such heavy decisions as these.]

It is a question of morality. How accountable should we hold such a woman, understanding both motivation and means? What price would you be willing to pay in the defense of your people?

[No, he has not answered the question per se. But you can probably tell where Anduin stands in this...]

Video - UN: peerless cucumber

[softheartedshizun]

She should pay for her crimes.

[chosenbylight]

To what extent?

[Anduin is doing his best to remain as impartial as he can as he attempts to cast his fishing line deeper into this topic.]

And whose responsibility should it be to exact the punishment?

[softheartedshizun]

Those she has wronged perhaps? As for the extent, it depends on the extent of her crimes. I can say at the very least she has caused me personal hardship.

video; un: xunxian

[topoiran]

That might be a slightly more complicated situation. For example, will doing so result in the obliteration of the citadel?

And, while we have had access to Bonaccorso's palace, the noblewoman you are referring to has her own place and security, so there is the logistical aspect of it.

Neither of these are impossible to resolve, but things are very volatile. What she did was for the safety of the citadel, as far as we aware, and whenever we leave, this place will need those who can ensure that safety. Perhaps talking with her before making a decision would be wise.

[chosenbylight]

[Anduin appreciates this point of view, himself. Given her security team, it might prove difficult to speak to her without some level of infiltration at first. But need it be violent? He feels like these things always turn to violence before diplomacy.

He offers a nod of understanding.]

She has proven herself ruthlessly capable of supporting the city in times of need. The question, I suppose, is whether she is ready to continue doing so under new leadership? And under what might perhaps be new leadership tactics in turn.

un: absterge

[downswing]

Was she a pawn willing?

[chosenbylight]

[Anduin considers the question carefully.]

Does anyone truly choose to put themselves in such a position?

[Spoken as someone frequently named a pawn himself.]

She was acting on Bonaccorso's orders. I have no doubt that she understood the consequences of both sides of the coin.

[downswing]

And chose yet to inflict.

un : dappled peals of the parted seas (voice)

[beitangmoran]

My good sir, pretty much any noble family in this city has a hand in this one way or another. This city did not become corrupted on this scale by the will of one man.

Lord Macaluso is a good-hearted fool. Given the plot that was in place regarding himself and Lady Vanozza, I do believe they were kept intentionally in the dark, but that does not mean they could not have discovered certain things by themselves. There does appear to be a lot they do not know, still.

[chosenbylight]

[This is... An intriguing answer. One that has Anduin Thinking.]

They are family. I think it is often the case that you do not believe those closest to you capable of such things, and at least in Macaluso's case, he may continue to be in denial of the depth to which the plot extends.

[Is he speaking from his own experience? Not At All...]

You are right, however. Any noble family which fell within Bonnacorso's inner circle does hold at least some responsibility for the circumstances which they find themselves in now.

[beitangmoran]

In some families, in might be like so. In families that are in power, however, you sometimes become all too aware of what your own flesh and blood is capable of.

[Ask him how he knows, haha. Most of the plots he's had to deal with happened because of his own mother.]

However, both Macaluso and Vannozza were very young when they came to be in their grandfather's care, and they probably were already being targeted for one of them to become a host for his soul so, keeping them in the dark was of the essence.

Knowing what we know now, this absolute farce of having them compete for the throne is even more cruel. Don Bonaccorso is shrewd. But I would expect anyone in his position to be.

As for consequences... I would put this very firmly in a box of 'this is not our problem to solve', if I were you. In general, though, keeping some people in place that one would normally excise or punish for the sake of stability is a done thing. The decision, however, should not be ours, but theirs.

It seems to me, however, that you are inquiring about someone specific. And being newly arrive, one wonders why.

[un: sprite bulb] text;

[bearshermark]

Macaluso was falsely accused, if you're speaking on his attempted assassination.

For Rigarda, she is not as craven as Bonaccorso, though that is a very low standard to hold to. While I don't agree with the methods she carries out from Bonaccorso's edict and question her use of power, the next city leader will do with her as they see fit, I imagine.

[chosenbylight]

You are of the opinion that Rigarda should not be apprehended for the actions she took under Bonaccorso's behest.

[Half a statement, half a question. He's really trying to get as many opinions on this as he can.]

[bearshermark]

Not by us.

UN: Senth; Video

[sergeant_slick]

Should they get judged? Yeah. By the locals. It's their city, their laws, their asses on the line when the people in charge screw up.

Us, though? Frankly, we've got a limited window to get out of here, if we get access to the beacon. The political situation here's a mess, and it's probably going to stay that way for years. If we get wrapped up in local fights, we're gonna be stuck here. [Or rather, other people will be stuck here, because he is not missing the chance to leave.]

[chosenbylight]

[This is -- a somewhat blunt way to put it, but equally true. And it does well to have the reminder of such. The beacon. A way to get home... This may be a mess, but it isn't Anduin's mess to clean up.

That one is waiting for him back in Azeroth.]

You are right, of course. This is not our home. These are not our people, nor our leaders. We cannot involve ourselves in every issue that arises while we are here.

How do we pick and choose?

[sergeant_slick]

[...He honestly hadn't expected any agreement. Huh.]

"We" is a generous way of putting it. This isn't really an organized group. Everybody's making their own decisions. [And much as his military instincts want him to shove everything into nice clean little boxes, he's a bit torn on whether everybody here should be organized.]

But for me? I've been staying out of the local politics. Make some friends, enjoy the city when it wasn't on fire [They have magical hair dye how could he not], then lend a hand out once it all went to hell. The locals asked me to help out with prep for taking on the nobility, so I did. [With great skepticism and reservations, because they'd been cluelessly optimistic about the whole thing.]

@starkov

[sankta]

i don't think we can give a blanket answer. shouldn't it be based on each individual and their circumstances?

[chosenbylight]

Then I would ask for your opinion on the woman known as donna Rigarda, if we are discussing specific individuals.

[This is a far less subtle approach than he had been initially intending to make, but he understands what she means. It would not be fair to judge her -- or anyone else, for that matter -- based on another person's mistakes. Or merits, at that.]

[sankta]

rigarda. right.

it's probably something that the city should decide about her. i can't say i blame her, but i can't say she should be allowed to simply walk away from her role in this, either.